Brilliant article: So true! As a SS writer myself, and further as a developmental book editor, I’ve experienced this from both sides of the fence. As a writer it can definitely be hard to take criticism; part of creating successfully, however, is learning to thicken your skin and absorb helpful feedback. But I agree: Those giving feedback would do well to practice doing so honestly yet kindly. As an editor people tend to approach me knowing I have a reputation as a very straightforward, no-bullshit guy. That said I always give feedback honestly and after first praising the positives of the writing. Writing of course is also rewriting, revising, editing, cutting, trimming, adding, etc. Every successful writer gets feedback. Anyway--very helpful article!
Love the way this article turned out, Tom! It's something we've discussed a number of times, and it's great to share how we landed on a reciprocal relationship of getting/giving good feedback.
I would encourage others by saying it comes naturally but does require getting out into the community and engaging with other writers on a regular basis. Also, Tom and I both come from tech backgrounds, and we tend to be a little more forthright since our space encourages a direct approach, but you might need someone that approaches it from a much different perspective. The only way to find that out is to interact and see how other writers respond to your work and start engaging.
All the better for our collaboration! As for whether our directness comes from tech ... I'd like to think my calling it like I see it runs deeper than that! :)
Thanks for the article Tom. I've asked for comments a few times in a "love to hear from you" sort of way and have indeed received a few. Not too many, but I guess that's okay. I'm pretty new here and slowly getting a little gas in the engine.
One of the things you mentioned really does resonate with me. The part about taking feedback that works for you and ingesting it and taking feedback that doesn't align with your vision and letting it go. I've been on that boat for a long time. It's healthy, but you do need to know yourself and your own vision.
I recently read an article by @gurwinder (not sure I'm doing this new thing correctly or if it even works in comments, sorry) about the danger of changing your vision according to your audience feedback. It was quite an interesting and revealing read.
Thanks Victor. You're right, learning how to trust yourself is huge. Some are born with it, and for others it takes time. You can post a direct link to the article in comments, but that @ mention didn't work. I for one would love to see the article.
Victor, that was a really great article--thanks for the recommendation. It made me realize that for some, the feedback I recommend soliciting could be a very dangerous thing.
Yeah, it's very important to know what you want to do and how you want to do it. And to be open, but also mindful of your vision. I really enjoyed that article and it was an eye opener, too. That poor first guy example is way sad.
Great article, Tom! If a note strikes me immediately as brilliant or useful, I’ll gladly take it right away. Otherwise, I’ll wait to see if I get the same note multiple times before implementing.
Very useful article! I especially agree with the idea of approaching a writer through a "back channel" before posting a potentially sensitive criticism directly in the comments. This seems like the most diplomatic way to broach the subject of feedback, especially if it's not clear how receptive an author might be to outside input. I've had wonderful writers I've connected with here on Substack approach me this way and I very much enjoy their insights and contributions! I also appreciate the tact, not so much because I am wary or unwelcoming of feedback (I welcome it in the comments, too!), but because it lets me know where the reader is coming from.
I also agree it's probably wise to be explicit about if and how much we welcome feedback. I know I probably haven't been clear enough in letting readers know I'm open to their critiques, impressions, and ideas. That will change!
I am someone who writes for myself, and I honestly don't care what people think--by that I mean opinions about what I say or how I say it. We could have a long conversation about the subjectivity of substance, literary merit, style, etc. However, I do care how readers understand my writing. If feedback can help me do a better job of explaining myself, I'm all for it :-) As you say, we can always improve.
Thank you! It's funny, my mom reads my 'Stack and always tells me she likes it, and I keep saying to her, "Mom, I don't care if you like it, I want to know if you got it and, more importantly, if you didn't get it, where did I go awry?" Liking has been so devalued with that little heart button everywhere, but good insights are hard to come by.
Did you get it and, if you didn't, where did I go awry? -- this is such a wonderful and concise way of asking THE reader question. I'm going to borrow it! Thank you :-)
I'm glad we have this article. I've tried asking for feedback on my serialized story, but I haven't had much luck. I think part of the problem could be that I have a very unconventional format, and so that might intimidate people (dialogue is written in script style, fight scenes are written like a walkthrough for a video game).
The section on giving feedback here makes me feel more confident in leaving comments. Though my belief is that if you don't want feedback on your story, you shouldn't have posted it in public online and turned on the comments. I feel the status quo on feedback should be the other way around where you have to specifically say that you don't want it, not go out of your way to say that it's allowed.
I like the emphasis placed on being kind. There's a certain type of jerk who uses 'honest feedback' as a smokescreen for outright insults and they drag down the entire dynamic of giving feedback online. And the point about being the author being the one who ultimately decides what to do with feedback was a good place to close off the article.
Might make this the first thing I cross-post, tomorrow since I have a chapter scheduled for later today and I'm not keen on sending multiple emails in one day. Just hope it doesn't come off as passive aggressive with all the 'please give me feedback' notes I've written.
Thanks William. I see you're one of those "tough" people! :) I kind of think I've implied a desire for feedback too, but it doesn't seem to work that way. And yeah, honest feedback can turn into trolling in the wrong hands, can't it?
Your note reminds me that I've been reading this writer who is writing "romance," and I find that I just can't really offer any feedback ... is it the genre that doesn't speak to me or are there other reasons? I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes me feel like I may have something to offer ...
I'm actually not too good at being critical myself, I'm just a strong believer in the importance of giving feedback and I worry that some fanfiction communities have let the trolls turn them away from genuine constructive critique as a whole.
It's hard to navigate your personal preferences to find what comment might be useful to the author. I think being up front about inexperience with the genre and other uncertainty can help. Sometimes admitting to not getting something is the right thing to do. I have a friend I consider a better critic than me for their willingness to admit when they simply don't get something, which often can reveal that part of the work was in fact too confusing.
For sure! I hesitate even giving feedback. I don't want to intrude where writers aren't looking for feedback and a writer's definition of feedback can vary. The explicit ask is a great strategy
Some of the best advice I've seen from two brilliant writers is that feedback tells you how a reader "experienced" the work, which helps the writer assess whether they've conveyed what they intended. Otherwise, "good" and "bad" is purely subjective.
Hey fellow fiction writers! I have questions for you regarding the paid subscription model for your work:
If you use Substack to serialize a novel or longer work, what happens when the novel/work is finished? Do you take the novel off Substack and then publish as a book on other platforms? Do subscribers game the system and subscribe after its complete so they’re only paying one months subscription fee for your whole backlist of work? How do you strategize your free and paid content? Do you funnel your subscribers from Substack to more powerful email managers like Mailerlite or Mailchimp to be able to use more complex onboarding sequences to welcome them to your newsletter and direct them to other content of interest?
I’m trying to figure out how this might work to know whether or not I want to publish my humorous adventure mystery series on Substack or if I should publish it the way I’ve already found success with publishing my steamy romance pen name.
Thank you for any helpful insights! It’s exciting to meet you all.
This is actually a different topic, and we can certainly open up a thread about it if you'd like. (Actually I might try a chat!)
For now, this is how I am managing it. I am serializing my Favor Faeries novel series on Substack for now (for paid members), and once I have finished the third book, I plan to revise them and then publish them all in rapid succession on Amazon. As I publish the chapters, they are complete but still what I consider early versions, if that makes sense (generally not first drafts though there are a few chapters I've had to work on before publishing on Substack).
The nice thing - in my opinion - is that it forces me to finish things up, it allows me to build an audience, and it could (though I don't utilize the option much) open up opportunities for feedback.
Also, I have no intentions of having a separate newsletter on another platform. My Story Cauldron Substack is my newsletter, my serial fiction, and my articles about writing and storytelling, and as I grow my Substack I will (hopefully) have an audience ready to buy my finished books. Only time will tell, though.
Thank you for the insight! I agree, this is probably not the article to ask my question in, but wasn’t sure how else to get in touch with you all. Thanks for replying!
Also I loved this article and I always welcome feedback! Though I agree with Geoffrey about waiting until I get multiple of the same note before taking any action if that note is something I initially don’t see or agree with.
What a welcome piece. Having worked with thousands of kids and teachers developing a curriculum and practice around giving feedback atop these foundational concepts:
Show respect.
You are experts on how your brain reacted to a piece; your task (duty) is to tell the writer what you noticed in a way that will be well-received.
Find what you liked first.
We discovered one thing that you dimension (if I missed it, I apologize; am reading on a smartishphone.) -- giving feedback helps your own writing; you begin to get more analytical and less emotional about your own work and therefore can see -- and fix -- flaws in your draft.
And revision -- self-editing -- is one of the keys to good writing.
Thank you for sharing! I really like what you said about kindness. Being kind in the feedback we give can help so much! Kindness and feedback are both powerful.
Managing feedback is definitely a weak spot for me. I am of the thin-skinned variety and easily bruised by criticism, particularly when the work is brand new and I'm in the newborn baby phase of things and only want to hear how beautiful my creation is. 😉
Just as it's important to be able to take or leave feedback based on your vision as the writer, I think it's important to know yourself as a human and choose your path to feedback accordingly. I always handle written feedback better than verbal. I like having the option of arguing with it out loud and making horrified faces that no one else can see. 😊I also like the option of putting it down, walking away, and returning to it later when I'm less defensive of the work.
I post a new piece of short fiction every week, so while the freshest ones may be too close to my author heart to open up to feedback at the start, I would consider updating older posts with a feedback ask, and work on improving those pieces over time for future readers.
Good advice and supportive insight from everyone in here. ❤️
I too like written feedback much better, but it’s because I’m too bull-headed to take the feedback other ways: when I first get feedback, I generally think the person is wrong, and it’s only when I cool down and think about it that I almost universally acknowledge that they’re right!
My error on the spacing around the new Substack mention feature, used in this article! Note to self: always preview carefully before you post!
Brilliant article: So true! As a SS writer myself, and further as a developmental book editor, I’ve experienced this from both sides of the fence. As a writer it can definitely be hard to take criticism; part of creating successfully, however, is learning to thicken your skin and absorb helpful feedback. But I agree: Those giving feedback would do well to practice doing so honestly yet kindly. As an editor people tend to approach me knowing I have a reputation as a very straightforward, no-bullshit guy. That said I always give feedback honestly and after first praising the positives of the writing. Writing of course is also rewriting, revising, editing, cutting, trimming, adding, etc. Every successful writer gets feedback. Anyway--very helpful article!
Michael Mohr
‘Sincere American Writing’
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/
Love the way this article turned out, Tom! It's something we've discussed a number of times, and it's great to share how we landed on a reciprocal relationship of getting/giving good feedback.
I would encourage others by saying it comes naturally but does require getting out into the community and engaging with other writers on a regular basis. Also, Tom and I both come from tech backgrounds, and we tend to be a little more forthright since our space encourages a direct approach, but you might need someone that approaches it from a much different perspective. The only way to find that out is to interact and see how other writers respond to your work and start engaging.
All the better for our collaboration! As for whether our directness comes from tech ... I'd like to think my calling it like I see it runs deeper than that! :)
Thanks for the article Tom. I've asked for comments a few times in a "love to hear from you" sort of way and have indeed received a few. Not too many, but I guess that's okay. I'm pretty new here and slowly getting a little gas in the engine.
One of the things you mentioned really does resonate with me. The part about taking feedback that works for you and ingesting it and taking feedback that doesn't align with your vision and letting it go. I've been on that boat for a long time. It's healthy, but you do need to know yourself and your own vision.
I recently read an article by @gurwinder (not sure I'm doing this new thing correctly or if it even works in comments, sorry) about the danger of changing your vision according to your audience feedback. It was quite an interesting and revealing read.
Thanks Victor. You're right, learning how to trust yourself is huge. Some are born with it, and for others it takes time. You can post a direct link to the article in comments, but that @ mention didn't work. I for one would love to see the article.
Thanks Tom and here's the link. I found it to be a great read.
https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/the-perils-of-audience-capture
Victor, that was a really great article--thanks for the recommendation. It made me realize that for some, the feedback I recommend soliciting could be a very dangerous thing.
Yeah, it's very important to know what you want to do and how you want to do it. And to be open, but also mindful of your vision. I really enjoyed that article and it was an eye opener, too. That poor first guy example is way sad.
Ah, if you heard him tell the story you wouldn’t find it sad, you’d find it funny! But it’s a story I have to let him tell himself …
Great article, Tom! If a note strikes me immediately as brilliant or useful, I’ll gladly take it right away. Otherwise, I’ll wait to see if I get the same note multiple times before implementing.
Thanks Geoffrey!
Very useful article! I especially agree with the idea of approaching a writer through a "back channel" before posting a potentially sensitive criticism directly in the comments. This seems like the most diplomatic way to broach the subject of feedback, especially if it's not clear how receptive an author might be to outside input. I've had wonderful writers I've connected with here on Substack approach me this way and I very much enjoy their insights and contributions! I also appreciate the tact, not so much because I am wary or unwelcoming of feedback (I welcome it in the comments, too!), but because it lets me know where the reader is coming from.
I also agree it's probably wise to be explicit about if and how much we welcome feedback. I know I probably haven't been clear enough in letting readers know I'm open to their critiques, impressions, and ideas. That will change!
I am someone who writes for myself, and I honestly don't care what people think--by that I mean opinions about what I say or how I say it. We could have a long conversation about the subjectivity of substance, literary merit, style, etc. However, I do care how readers understand my writing. If feedback can help me do a better job of explaining myself, I'm all for it :-) As you say, we can always improve.
Thank you! It's funny, my mom reads my 'Stack and always tells me she likes it, and I keep saying to her, "Mom, I don't care if you like it, I want to know if you got it and, more importantly, if you didn't get it, where did I go awry?" Liking has been so devalued with that little heart button everywhere, but good insights are hard to come by.
Did you get it and, if you didn't, where did I go awry? -- this is such a wonderful and concise way of asking THE reader question. I'm going to borrow it! Thank you :-)
🙌🙌🔥
I'm glad we have this article. I've tried asking for feedback on my serialized story, but I haven't had much luck. I think part of the problem could be that I have a very unconventional format, and so that might intimidate people (dialogue is written in script style, fight scenes are written like a walkthrough for a video game).
The section on giving feedback here makes me feel more confident in leaving comments. Though my belief is that if you don't want feedback on your story, you shouldn't have posted it in public online and turned on the comments. I feel the status quo on feedback should be the other way around where you have to specifically say that you don't want it, not go out of your way to say that it's allowed.
I like the emphasis placed on being kind. There's a certain type of jerk who uses 'honest feedback' as a smokescreen for outright insults and they drag down the entire dynamic of giving feedback online. And the point about being the author being the one who ultimately decides what to do with feedback was a good place to close off the article.
Might make this the first thing I cross-post, tomorrow since I have a chapter scheduled for later today and I'm not keen on sending multiple emails in one day. Just hope it doesn't come off as passive aggressive with all the 'please give me feedback' notes I've written.
Thanks William. I see you're one of those "tough" people! :) I kind of think I've implied a desire for feedback too, but it doesn't seem to work that way. And yeah, honest feedback can turn into trolling in the wrong hands, can't it?
Your note reminds me that I've been reading this writer who is writing "romance," and I find that I just can't really offer any feedback ... is it the genre that doesn't speak to me or are there other reasons? I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes me feel like I may have something to offer ...
I'm actually not too good at being critical myself, I'm just a strong believer in the importance of giving feedback and I worry that some fanfiction communities have let the trolls turn them away from genuine constructive critique as a whole.
It's hard to navigate your personal preferences to find what comment might be useful to the author. I think being up front about inexperience with the genre and other uncertainty can help. Sometimes admitting to not getting something is the right thing to do. I have a friend I consider a better critic than me for their willingness to admit when they simply don't get something, which often can reveal that part of the work was in fact too confusing.
That's a great idea! I'll try it.
Valid points 🙏
Great article! I've been thinking about how to encourage my readers to provide feedback. Your advice will help me get started. Thanks
I hope it works! I wish there was some magic way to get more feedback, but I think it just takes building up trust.
For sure! I hesitate even giving feedback. I don't want to intrude where writers aren't looking for feedback and a writer's definition of feedback can vary. The explicit ask is a great strategy
🔥🔥
Some of the best advice I've seen from two brilliant writers is that feedback tells you how a reader "experienced" the work, which helps the writer assess whether they've conveyed what they intended. Otherwise, "good" and "bad" is purely subjective.
Great point!
🔥🔥❤️
Hey fellow fiction writers! I have questions for you regarding the paid subscription model for your work:
If you use Substack to serialize a novel or longer work, what happens when the novel/work is finished? Do you take the novel off Substack and then publish as a book on other platforms? Do subscribers game the system and subscribe after its complete so they’re only paying one months subscription fee for your whole backlist of work? How do you strategize your free and paid content? Do you funnel your subscribers from Substack to more powerful email managers like Mailerlite or Mailchimp to be able to use more complex onboarding sequences to welcome them to your newsletter and direct them to other content of interest?
I’m trying to figure out how this might work to know whether or not I want to publish my humorous adventure mystery series on Substack or if I should publish it the way I’ve already found success with publishing my steamy romance pen name.
Thank you for any helpful insights! It’s exciting to meet you all.
This is actually a different topic, and we can certainly open up a thread about it if you'd like. (Actually I might try a chat!)
For now, this is how I am managing it. I am serializing my Favor Faeries novel series on Substack for now (for paid members), and once I have finished the third book, I plan to revise them and then publish them all in rapid succession on Amazon. As I publish the chapters, they are complete but still what I consider early versions, if that makes sense (generally not first drafts though there are a few chapters I've had to work on before publishing on Substack).
The nice thing - in my opinion - is that it forces me to finish things up, it allows me to build an audience, and it could (though I don't utilize the option much) open up opportunities for feedback.
Also, I have no intentions of having a separate newsletter on another platform. My Story Cauldron Substack is my newsletter, my serial fiction, and my articles about writing and storytelling, and as I grow my Substack I will (hopefully) have an audience ready to buy my finished books. Only time will tell, though.
Thank you for the insight! I agree, this is probably not the article to ask my question in, but wasn’t sure how else to get in touch with you all. Thanks for replying!
Do a chat Jackie! I bet we'd see a bunch of different options emerge.
Also I loved this article and I always welcome feedback! Though I agree with Geoffrey about waiting until I get multiple of the same note before taking any action if that note is something I initially don’t see or agree with.
Great advice. Gracias! 🖖🏽
What a welcome piece. Having worked with thousands of kids and teachers developing a curriculum and practice around giving feedback atop these foundational concepts:
Show respect.
You are experts on how your brain reacted to a piece; your task (duty) is to tell the writer what you noticed in a way that will be well-received.
Find what you liked first.
We discovered one thing that you dimension (if I missed it, I apologize; am reading on a smartishphone.) -- giving feedback helps your own writing; you begin to get more analytical and less emotional about your own work and therefore can see -- and fix -- flaws in your draft.
And revision -- self-editing -- is one of the keys to good writing.
Thanks again for this post.
You're welcome. Thanks for reading.
Yes. As a developmental book editor this is very spot-on 🔥🙌
Thank you for sharing! I really like what you said about kindness. Being kind in the feedback we give can help so much! Kindness and feedback are both powerful.
Thanks a bunch Marisa
Especially if the feedback is major
Thank you for this, Tom and contributors!
Managing feedback is definitely a weak spot for me. I am of the thin-skinned variety and easily bruised by criticism, particularly when the work is brand new and I'm in the newborn baby phase of things and only want to hear how beautiful my creation is. 😉
Just as it's important to be able to take or leave feedback based on your vision as the writer, I think it's important to know yourself as a human and choose your path to feedback accordingly. I always handle written feedback better than verbal. I like having the option of arguing with it out loud and making horrified faces that no one else can see. 😊I also like the option of putting it down, walking away, and returning to it later when I'm less defensive of the work.
I post a new piece of short fiction every week, so while the freshest ones may be too close to my author heart to open up to feedback at the start, I would consider updating older posts with a feedback ask, and work on improving those pieces over time for future readers.
Good advice and supportive insight from everyone in here. ❤️
Happy to be aboard with you all.
I too like written feedback much better, but it’s because I’m too bull-headed to take the feedback other ways: when I first get feedback, I generally think the person is wrong, and it’s only when I cool down and think about it that I almost universally acknowledge that they’re right!
🤣🤣🤣: Oh I relate
❤️❤️❤️