Welcome to the first monthly Fictionistas Workshop Thread. This is a space to request feedback on your writing from your fellow Fictionistas. All you have to do is leave a comment with a link to the piece, what sort of feedback you're looking for, and where you'd like to receive the feedback. The piece itself doesn't even need to be on Substack.
When giving feedback, remember to be specific and constructive. Don't tear your fellow writers down with insults, but don't give them bland praise that leaves them in the dark over what precisely they did well either. And regardless of where the feedback is given, a comment on this thread about giving it will help people see who has received feedback already and who still needs some.
You can leave feedback here in this thread. As you'll see, this is a story with very unusual formatting due to the fake video game guide/script framing device. Part of the prologue's role is to create intrigue around each character, since the point is that all of them can play the part of protagonist, does it accomplish this? And I'd appreciate comments on the style/formatting itself.
Also I had to hold back from doing some edits due to a sudden change in mindset. I think originally I wanted the explanation of the fantasy races with the 'game' explanation to avoid slowing down character description. Now I want to include it as part of the character description because I think that's better and hate that I did something else. But I figured it was probably safer to save those edits for after the feedback thread, can't edit everything on a whim.
What an intriguing story! I love how you're playing with form and style of storytelling.
I'll be honest, I skimmed the introduction you gave. I didn't want an explanation of your work, but wanted to go in cold like I expect a reader would do. I'm going to give feedback on that cold read and then go back to your intro.
Overall, I really like the tension you created at the beginning of this tournament. Your world building is expansive, that's clear and the fighting game was vivid in my head. The fact that the majority of the story is dialogue made it a quick read.
I have a couple points of feedback. The first has to do with the dialogue. You are introducing the characters and world through dialogue alone, really. Sure, we get physical descriptions in prose, but that's not nearly as important as the deeper character development in the dialogue. Watch out for over explaining in your dialogue, making it an info dump. The opening dialogue was info dumpy. Remember to trust your reader to infer information. Dialogue should read like natural conservation. When we talk to each other, lots of going on between the lines. This will lead to more interesting and page turning dialogue. It's a fine line though. There was only one moment I was confused about what the characters were talking about, and the was with Aodh staying away from his friends? I didn't need to know what happened, that can be a great reveal but the italics about an animation threw me off. I didn't know what was going on there.
I would suggest studying script writing. Look at how other script writers reveal background info on their dialogue
My last piece of feedback has to do with your settings. You are taking on a great challenge introducting so many characters at once (i was getting hunger games vibes, when we meet all the players). I would be very intentional with what I add to this opening chapter and keep it concise so as not to overwhelm the reader. Based on your description of the project, there will be more opportunities to get to know these characters. You want to make sure the stakes are clear. This will allow the reader to connect with the characters and keep them reading.
I also wonder if it would be beneficial to keep the setting constant in these opening scenes. These characters can all be getting together at the tournament and talking. With all the characters you introduce, adding multiple settings on top is a lot. From what I remember about these fighting games, you can change settings to battle but what if you want to introduce the setting when the battle happens. You're going to need to remind the reader about the new setting anyway. There's just so much information in this chapter, readers are going to need continued (subtle) reminders about the characters and setting anyway.
I hope that's helpful! I'm going to check out your introduction now
Okay, I checked out the intro. It was interesting to hear about the inspiration behind this story you're telling. It's unique and I enjoy reading about how you came to write this story. You could continue to give these kinds of behind the scene peeks into your inspiration, if you like.
One thing that didn't feel necessary was the description of the creatures in your story. You give a brief description of these characters in the prologue. Anything not included I'm assuming will be revealing throughout the story. You could also make the background of each type of character it's own post, like discuss the use of orcs in literature/ pop culture. I imagine you have a lot of knowledge in this area and your readers will be interested to learn
The difficulty with the prologue is that since each fighter has their own story with them being the protagonist, that can be read in any order after the prologue, it needs to feature all of them. So the characters introduced here is already at the bare minimum, only way to remove some would be to give them an indirect but clear and intriguing presence.
Presenting all that information definitely led to some inelegant dialogue out of feeling pressured to include. I feel like I'm usually better about info without a scale as ambitious and variable as this. The arena changing form for example is definitely something I only want to explain outright once in the prologue, otherwise it'd get tedious for everyone if I did it fourteen times but confusing if I didn't.
Keeping the prologue to one area is a good idea. Wanted to show off the range of places involved, but like you said there's a lot to juggle already.
Intent was for people to read introduction first so you skipping it already tells me a lot, was worried people without gaming knowledge would feel lost without it. So that's good that it still worked even without it.
Also surprised that the descriptions of the fantasy races felt unneeded to you. Orcs and lizal are common enough that I can see most readers not needing it, but cephal and definitely talpmans felt like they would need description. Guess my character description accomplished more than I gave it credit for.
Definitely want to try some revisions for it now, but since the serial is ongoing there's only so much I can edit it. But since it's defined by the starts and stops with each character story, I suppose I could get away with reissuing it, but there'd need to be a way for readers to understand it was edited before setting aside the email. Regardless I've been planning to eventually do a revised and collected edition, I'll definitely be referring back to this at some point.
I could totally tell that the scale of your task led to the dialogue being a bit awkward. You do well introducing the king, leaving the reader to infer information and leaving them with questions and needing to read on to find out more. I think that's where you want to leave readers in this prologue. They'll have questions and need to go follow that character in their journey to find answers.
I just had a thought, you're using this prologue to essentially introduce an entire series, and an expansive one at that. Kind of like how romance authors will write each book in the series in the POV of another character. That could be important to keep in mind, though you seem well aware of the big bite you've taken haha. You've done a good job so far!
I'm not familiar with cephal and talpmans, but I didn't need to be to understand the prologue. That's where additional posts may be handy, so that if readers are curious to know more, you can provide the information to them
I didn't think about the romance book angle, probably because it isn't a genre I've read much of. When you put it like that maybe I should read some for reference.
Even though I’ve never been a gammer, I could picture everything and enjoyed the world building.
The dialogue between Eringlr and Hákon revels important information without coming across as forced, but there could be some variation in the way they speak to set them apart. I have similar thoughts for Walakea and Nisha. I noticed the most clear distinctions between characters with dialogue between Metrophanes and Kazuko.
Again, I am not a gammer, and my focus at film school was writing for film & television, not games, but I look forward to reading more.
Also, do you prefer feedback here or in the comments of the piece?
This was a really ambitious undertaking! The game story background is a cool idea. Lots of thoughts here—hope this helps!
Paraphrasing your questions & answers:
1. Style/formatting: does it create intrigue for all characters (since you can play any of ‘em)?
A. Honestly I think this is a heavy lift ask of a player at the beginning to meet and care about 14 characters who each have just a few lines. Introduced like this, after the 4th or 5th character, they all start to be unfamiliar story noise in the way of gameplay to me. If it was me, I’d likely skip and choose a character to get started so I could learn for myself.
B. Another thing: there wasn’t a hook in all of the scenes that gave me a clear idea of what I as a player would do immediately as that character.
C. It was unclear what fighting advantages or styles each character had.
2. To include fantasy races in prologue or later?
A. There are a lot! For me personally (and full disclosure I’m a very light gamer, though when I play, I am playing to enjoy the story not to fight) I want to discover the character roster a bit more organically. I don’t have the headspace to care about more than two or three strangers to start out with. I would recommend choosing one character and their partner and/or foe and introduce them first and set them in scenes that help introduce your world and keep it relatively short, but you could make it more complicated and intriguing!
B. As a suggestion for format, you could pick one character and have them meet all the others in some pre tournament revel or ritual instead?
If you’re going to give a player a lot of information, I think it needs to be less of a series of scene cuts and something more cohesive. What do you want them to think/feel/do?
I believe you want to them to have a roster of characters to choose from based on one of maybe 3 things?
-an emotional connection to their conflict
-thinking their powers will be fun to fight with
-thinking they have a cool story goal that feels immediately engaging and actionable
I didn’t consistently get that information.
Global Comments:
• Suggest remove “as you might have guessed” in your stage cues—I’d advise either adding narrative style/voice or don’t break the fourth wall with stage cues
• I don’t think you can use Lizal or Hyperion as these are both in Zelda. In fact, many of the races sound like they’re from Zelda, save the Dragons and Drakes. You may want to take another pass on a few of them to make them more unique
• Since you had Drakes in your race lineup, if you’re going to stick with it, I’d add a note about magicians too. This was unexpected to me.
Comments By the Scenes
• Scene 1: this dialog felt forced—not sure what the stadium being late tells the player. Suggest switch to platform reveal alone as the reason the characters are here.
• Most of this scene was “As you know, Bob”: characters telling each other what they know as a thinly veiled mechanism give the audience information—“you helped me train”, “As you know, I’m a thrall now”…I’d suggest rewriting this with more organic dialog.
• Scene 2: This scene has more “As you know, Bob”—I suggest rewrite with a conflict with one wanting to join the tournament bc they can advertise their school and the other saying it’ll be dangerous because there are people that don’t want the real history stroy taught
◦ I didn’t get what was happening with Hirzen
◦ The marriage joke didn’t land for me, mostly because I didn’t get that Wallace’s was pushing for the tournament and Nisha was resisting at all
• Scene 3: didn’t get Amezwar’s aside about being in trouble
• Scene 4: 2nd favorite scene
◦ Enjoyed Quiahuitl’s jab about Eamon’s dragon Uncle—my favorite part
◦ Eamon’s aside was also good
• Scene 5:
◦ Hyperion’s description needs wings and tail—wasn’t sure he was a dragon until Aodh’s description references it.
◦ Cut scene reference to Aodh’s damaged animation then 180 opinion seemed too on the nose
• Scene 6:
◦ Hyperion is mentioned in the stage cues but not in the scene
◦ Weird for Kazuko to walk in and ask a stranger about his moving puppet without any intro or unique voice that lets us know she’s a blunt asocial sort. Her reasoning that everyone in her village knows each other seems antithetical to me
◦ This scene wasn’t compelling to me. The puppet being Metrophanes’s secret weapon was too vague to me and Kazuko wanting cool spoils wasn’t sufficient stakes for me to root for her.
• Scene 7: Favorite Scene
◦ “Wait for him to man up” sounds very urban—took me out of the fantasy feel
◦ Intriguing about Fintan seeking Aodh out—suggest keep that, not have Fintan say he hopes to see him in the arena. Removes the tension you just built
◦ Oh, Aris’s “it’s what I owe him” after Fintan warns him off going down an evil path is very well done!
In case you’re wondering—I would choose Fintan and I’d be seeking out Aodh as my first action. ;)
This epsiode has a mystery of the week plot as well as introducing the mytharc plot. Looking for advice on how to better balance those two elements, and anything else that crosses your mind.
I thought the opening was rather strong, and it was funny throughout. I appreciate a good running gag like Tumbler and his updated terms of service. And I liked how Laura kept thinking of her father, interesting character note, he felt like a proper member of the cast through all the mentions.
However, I think part of the issue is that the pool incident never becomes truly interesting, just part of the comedy, while the actual intrigue cases are handled by other people. Which makes the ending not that satisfying, because there wasn't much investment in the storyline that did get resolved.
I'm not used to crime fiction, but aren't the culprits usually introduced before confronting them? It feels a little anti-climatic for two only alluded to before characters to be the culprits who get taken down in the same scene they first appear in. Feels more like the lead in to the intrigue than the proper mystery of the week. Also for a serial chapter it felt a little too long, maybe break up each episode a little, or condense them?
Thanks for reading. I think you're right about the central mystery being a bit dull, the idea of stolen pool water was just too funny for me to let go. Don't build an entire plot around a joke!
I laughed out loud throughout your piece, especially near the beginning. Lines like “If Laura had done that she’d be written up for a dress code violation, dinner and a movie” and “Peer-reviewed studies had shown it could help with her myriad skin problems, and crackpot-reviewed tweets said it could increase her psychogenic resonance. Win-win, she thought” are funny, but also give us a chance to peer into the Laura’s world and/or mind.
Laura is an excellent protagonist because she’s well-rounded and we get a sense of her flaws and positive traits. However, the other characters are a bit one-dimensional and flat.
As the story progressed, I was losing interest because the scenes were answering questions quicker than creating them. There were also some extensive sets of dialogue that moved the main plot forward, but revealed little about the characters that could be used for secondary plots.
The external stakes are clear, but answered quickly. What are some of the internal stakes from all the characters? How could these internal stakes play a role in the main plot to keep it more engaging? What are the thematic stakes? What are some questions you want us to ask about the characters that you can reveal later on?
I enjoyed your work, and I’m looking forward to reading a revised edition and following Laura’s adventures.
Thank you for reading, this is quite helpful. I knew something was up with the tension and I think you're right, few of the mysteries get time to breathe. Will definitely work on this for future revisions and episodes.
Specifically, along with a third-person POV in the story, I also tried an internal monologue scene from the point of view of the main character. I'm hopeful it works in context.
Thanks for hosting this, Fictionistas! Excited to dive in and provide some feedback!
As for my request: I’d like feedback on my newsletter which is half sci-fi, half real life science essay relating to the sci-fi. My nascent brand is ‘near-future, mission-plausible” for the science part... and I’ve deviated this week on that, and I’m not sure I should have.
For the fiction chapter:
-does the dialog flow? Are the voices differentiated enough for good characterization?
-How’s the transition around Lucifer’s narrative summary telling Eve about her past and her Multiverse selves? Too info dumpy? Awkward amid the dialog?
-Does it make sense? (Sorry, this is CH2--Ch1 did not have a science IRL essay)
For the science fiction essay: This is my 2nd series in my new Newsletter. My first set of essays were strongly rooted in real today/tomorrow science NASA is working on and related directly to what was happening in the chapter. I’ve just leaped over near-future into what’s probably many decades or a century problem: building a multiverse ship, AND I’ve based in on collaborative Notes involvement with readers...and I don’t have many readers.
-Do you advise me to continue this path for the science portion, or do you suggest I stick with my brand until it’s stronger and I have more established readers before I experiment?
Coming in part way through a serial is always a little difficult, and harder in a written work since descriptions of things tend to be found earlier. I felt the summary of Lucifer's narrative broke the flow, would have preferred it as dialogue. Lucifer and Eve felt distinct dialogue wise. And I liked how you wrote Eve's perspective with how much she doesn't know.
Despite the issues with starting mid serial, I think I have a solid handle of the story. Eve is to her knowledge the only human on some sort of scavenger world, and the story is about to bring in the multiverse. With the whole thing referencing Genesis.
Byline for the chapter also feels a little busy. By ~6 chapters do you mean the whole thing will be six chapters? Some people prefer not knowing how many chapters a serial will be, and it's also unclear to me if the ~ even represents that. The various slashes before punk also make it seem a bit too jumbled.
I relate hard to attempting to do collaborative elements with few readers, I've done polls for my serial that got crickets. Gets very discouraging.
I had trouble understanding how exactly your collaborative part is planned. If you're going to use examples, I think they should highlight the collaborative part. Because I'm not sure how the process will involve multiple people, you need to show the blank parts where someone else says something.
The full outline makes it feel like too much of a solo effort. The prompting for readers feels too broad and encompassing, I think you should narrow it down, like asking for hypotheses and then individually prompting people who respond for their refined ones. I definitely appreciate trying something like this for reader engagement, you should keep at it and refine it.
I'm not ready to participate yet, but I'm beginning to sandbox my latest project this month. I'd love some feedback as I venture into some different forms of storytelling. How often are you hosting these workshop threads?
Current idea is to do them monthly, but we're just starting this out, so things could change. Giving feedback is also a way to participate in this thread.
I have a serial story on Kindle Direct Publishing's Vella program, not sure if that is "eligible" but I would definitely appreciate feedback. I've "published" 6 episodes, writing the 7th now. The first three episodes are free reads, and I would love feedback. But I understand if KDP isn't eligible for this workshop. Here is the first episode: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/episode/B0BSTY9WF9
This is my first attempt at writing horror, and though I'm pleased with the outcome, I'm still trying to figure out the right blend of description/action/internal monologue to keep the reader interested and not confused. Is the pacing of the story okay? Does it seem to flow or get stuck in certain areas? How can I improve on this as the story continues? And is there another glaring problem that I need to fix but just don't see?
Thanks for posting this for everyone to read. I think you've got a really lovely prose style that really sets the mood quite effortlessly in the opening paragraphs. I was immediately intrigued and that's often half the battle. On that note you're totally fine with balancing the internal monologue and the action and description, everything flows naturally and it never feels like we're jumping from thought, to action, to description awkwardly.
If I had an issue with this story it's that a lot of the moments that are supposed to be a little scary or spooky are sometimes quite bluntly and laid on a bit thick. I think this comes from the scarier moments being rushed a little bit especially towards the end, we don't get a lot of time for the atmosphere to envelop us, it just kind of changes quite abruptly. Looking forward to seeing where this goes though!
Thank you, Ethan! I really appreciate your feedback. Pacing is usually a problem for me. I've been working on slowing down and letting the atmosphere simmer, but I haven't quite figured out how to make something scary without ending up as a jumpscare. Giving the story space always feels like I'm dragging it out and boring the reader, but if it's too fast, it feels rushed, like you said. Definitely a good thing to keep working on!
I posted the prologue and first chapter of God’s Paperwork, a fictional story where Ana Petrenko must navigate the afterlife’s bureaucracy to find her brother and change her family’s fate in the physical world.
All comments are welcome. I’m more often a nonfiction writer, but after reading some of Terry Prachett, Neil Gaiman, and Douglas Adam’s work, I became inspired to satirize my partner’s bureaucratic rollercoaster.
I’m a “plantser,” so even though I have a general idea of the major plot points, scenes might move around. I’m hoping to make this fictional story interactive for subscribers through comments, guest appearances, and references.
I'll start with Battles Beneath the Stars, specifically the prologue. https://warthogreport.substack.com/p/introduction-and-prologue
You can leave feedback here in this thread. As you'll see, this is a story with very unusual formatting due to the fake video game guide/script framing device. Part of the prologue's role is to create intrigue around each character, since the point is that all of them can play the part of protagonist, does it accomplish this? And I'd appreciate comments on the style/formatting itself.
Also I had to hold back from doing some edits due to a sudden change in mindset. I think originally I wanted the explanation of the fantasy races with the 'game' explanation to avoid slowing down character description. Now I want to include it as part of the character description because I think that's better and hate that I did something else. But I figured it was probably safer to save those edits for after the feedback thread, can't edit everything on a whim.
What an intriguing story! I love how you're playing with form and style of storytelling.
I'll be honest, I skimmed the introduction you gave. I didn't want an explanation of your work, but wanted to go in cold like I expect a reader would do. I'm going to give feedback on that cold read and then go back to your intro.
Overall, I really like the tension you created at the beginning of this tournament. Your world building is expansive, that's clear and the fighting game was vivid in my head. The fact that the majority of the story is dialogue made it a quick read.
I have a couple points of feedback. The first has to do with the dialogue. You are introducing the characters and world through dialogue alone, really. Sure, we get physical descriptions in prose, but that's not nearly as important as the deeper character development in the dialogue. Watch out for over explaining in your dialogue, making it an info dump. The opening dialogue was info dumpy. Remember to trust your reader to infer information. Dialogue should read like natural conservation. When we talk to each other, lots of going on between the lines. This will lead to more interesting and page turning dialogue. It's a fine line though. There was only one moment I was confused about what the characters were talking about, and the was with Aodh staying away from his friends? I didn't need to know what happened, that can be a great reveal but the italics about an animation threw me off. I didn't know what was going on there.
I would suggest studying script writing. Look at how other script writers reveal background info on their dialogue
My last piece of feedback has to do with your settings. You are taking on a great challenge introducting so many characters at once (i was getting hunger games vibes, when we meet all the players). I would be very intentional with what I add to this opening chapter and keep it concise so as not to overwhelm the reader. Based on your description of the project, there will be more opportunities to get to know these characters. You want to make sure the stakes are clear. This will allow the reader to connect with the characters and keep them reading.
I also wonder if it would be beneficial to keep the setting constant in these opening scenes. These characters can all be getting together at the tournament and talking. With all the characters you introduce, adding multiple settings on top is a lot. From what I remember about these fighting games, you can change settings to battle but what if you want to introduce the setting when the battle happens. You're going to need to remind the reader about the new setting anyway. There's just so much information in this chapter, readers are going to need continued (subtle) reminders about the characters and setting anyway.
I hope that's helpful! I'm going to check out your introduction now
Okay, I checked out the intro. It was interesting to hear about the inspiration behind this story you're telling. It's unique and I enjoy reading about how you came to write this story. You could continue to give these kinds of behind the scene peeks into your inspiration, if you like.
One thing that didn't feel necessary was the description of the creatures in your story. You give a brief description of these characters in the prologue. Anything not included I'm assuming will be revealing throughout the story. You could also make the background of each type of character it's own post, like discuss the use of orcs in literature/ pop culture. I imagine you have a lot of knowledge in this area and your readers will be interested to learn
Thank you for all the feedback.
The difficulty with the prologue is that since each fighter has their own story with them being the protagonist, that can be read in any order after the prologue, it needs to feature all of them. So the characters introduced here is already at the bare minimum, only way to remove some would be to give them an indirect but clear and intriguing presence.
Presenting all that information definitely led to some inelegant dialogue out of feeling pressured to include. I feel like I'm usually better about info without a scale as ambitious and variable as this. The arena changing form for example is definitely something I only want to explain outright once in the prologue, otherwise it'd get tedious for everyone if I did it fourteen times but confusing if I didn't.
Keeping the prologue to one area is a good idea. Wanted to show off the range of places involved, but like you said there's a lot to juggle already.
Intent was for people to read introduction first so you skipping it already tells me a lot, was worried people without gaming knowledge would feel lost without it. So that's good that it still worked even without it.
Also surprised that the descriptions of the fantasy races felt unneeded to you. Orcs and lizal are common enough that I can see most readers not needing it, but cephal and definitely talpmans felt like they would need description. Guess my character description accomplished more than I gave it credit for.
Definitely want to try some revisions for it now, but since the serial is ongoing there's only so much I can edit it. But since it's defined by the starts and stops with each character story, I suppose I could get away with reissuing it, but there'd need to be a way for readers to understand it was edited before setting aside the email. Regardless I've been planning to eventually do a revised and collected edition, I'll definitely be referring back to this at some point.
I could totally tell that the scale of your task led to the dialogue being a bit awkward. You do well introducing the king, leaving the reader to infer information and leaving them with questions and needing to read on to find out more. I think that's where you want to leave readers in this prologue. They'll have questions and need to go follow that character in their journey to find answers.
I just had a thought, you're using this prologue to essentially introduce an entire series, and an expansive one at that. Kind of like how romance authors will write each book in the series in the POV of another character. That could be important to keep in mind, though you seem well aware of the big bite you've taken haha. You've done a good job so far!
I'm not familiar with cephal and talpmans, but I didn't need to be to understand the prologue. That's where additional posts may be handy, so that if readers are curious to know more, you can provide the information to them
I didn't think about the romance book angle, probably because it isn't a genre I've read much of. When you put it like that maybe I should read some for reference.
I'm not a huge romance reader either, but they could be worth checking out. They tend to be quick reads. Romance readers are voracious! haha
Even though I’ve never been a gammer, I could picture everything and enjoyed the world building.
The dialogue between Eringlr and Hákon revels important information without coming across as forced, but there could be some variation in the way they speak to set them apart. I have similar thoughts for Walakea and Nisha. I noticed the most clear distinctions between characters with dialogue between Metrophanes and Kazuko.
Again, I am not a gammer, and my focus at film school was writing for film & television, not games, but I look forward to reading more.
Also, do you prefer feedback here or in the comments of the piece?
I prefer feedback here. Thank you. I'll look into the character voice.
This was a really ambitious undertaking! The game story background is a cool idea. Lots of thoughts here—hope this helps!
Paraphrasing your questions & answers:
1. Style/formatting: does it create intrigue for all characters (since you can play any of ‘em)?
A. Honestly I think this is a heavy lift ask of a player at the beginning to meet and care about 14 characters who each have just a few lines. Introduced like this, after the 4th or 5th character, they all start to be unfamiliar story noise in the way of gameplay to me. If it was me, I’d likely skip and choose a character to get started so I could learn for myself.
B. Another thing: there wasn’t a hook in all of the scenes that gave me a clear idea of what I as a player would do immediately as that character.
C. It was unclear what fighting advantages or styles each character had.
2. To include fantasy races in prologue or later?
A. There are a lot! For me personally (and full disclosure I’m a very light gamer, though when I play, I am playing to enjoy the story not to fight) I want to discover the character roster a bit more organically. I don’t have the headspace to care about more than two or three strangers to start out with. I would recommend choosing one character and their partner and/or foe and introduce them first and set them in scenes that help introduce your world and keep it relatively short, but you could make it more complicated and intriguing!
B. As a suggestion for format, you could pick one character and have them meet all the others in some pre tournament revel or ritual instead?
If you’re going to give a player a lot of information, I think it needs to be less of a series of scene cuts and something more cohesive. What do you want them to think/feel/do?
I believe you want to them to have a roster of characters to choose from based on one of maybe 3 things?
-an emotional connection to their conflict
-thinking their powers will be fun to fight with
-thinking they have a cool story goal that feels immediately engaging and actionable
I didn’t consistently get that information.
Global Comments:
• Suggest remove “as you might have guessed” in your stage cues—I’d advise either adding narrative style/voice or don’t break the fourth wall with stage cues
• I don’t think you can use Lizal or Hyperion as these are both in Zelda. In fact, many of the races sound like they’re from Zelda, save the Dragons and Drakes. You may want to take another pass on a few of them to make them more unique
• Since you had Drakes in your race lineup, if you’re going to stick with it, I’d add a note about magicians too. This was unexpected to me.
Comments By the Scenes
• Scene 1: this dialog felt forced—not sure what the stadium being late tells the player. Suggest switch to platform reveal alone as the reason the characters are here.
• Most of this scene was “As you know, Bob”: characters telling each other what they know as a thinly veiled mechanism give the audience information—“you helped me train”, “As you know, I’m a thrall now”…I’d suggest rewriting this with more organic dialog.
• Scene 2: This scene has more “As you know, Bob”—I suggest rewrite with a conflict with one wanting to join the tournament bc they can advertise their school and the other saying it’ll be dangerous because there are people that don’t want the real history stroy taught
◦ I didn’t get what was happening with Hirzen
◦ The marriage joke didn’t land for me, mostly because I didn’t get that Wallace’s was pushing for the tournament and Nisha was resisting at all
• Scene 3: didn’t get Amezwar’s aside about being in trouble
• Scene 4: 2nd favorite scene
◦ Enjoyed Quiahuitl’s jab about Eamon’s dragon Uncle—my favorite part
◦ Eamon’s aside was also good
• Scene 5:
◦ Hyperion’s description needs wings and tail—wasn’t sure he was a dragon until Aodh’s description references it.
◦ Cut scene reference to Aodh’s damaged animation then 180 opinion seemed too on the nose
• Scene 6:
◦ Hyperion is mentioned in the stage cues but not in the scene
◦ Weird for Kazuko to walk in and ask a stranger about his moving puppet without any intro or unique voice that lets us know she’s a blunt asocial sort. Her reasoning that everyone in her village knows each other seems antithetical to me
◦ This scene wasn’t compelling to me. The puppet being Metrophanes’s secret weapon was too vague to me and Kazuko wanting cool spoils wasn’t sufficient stakes for me to root for her.
• Scene 7: Favorite Scene
◦ “Wait for him to man up” sounds very urban—took me out of the fantasy feel
◦ Intriguing about Fintan seeking Aodh out—suggest keep that, not have Fintan say he hopes to see him in the arena. Removes the tension you just built
◦ Oh, Aris’s “it’s what I owe him” after Fintan warns him off going down an evil path is very well done!
In case you’re wondering—I would choose Fintan and I’d be seeking out Aodh as my first action. ;)
Good luck with it!
Thank you for all of the commentary, it's very helpful.
Hello everyone. This is the latest and, thus far, weakest installment of my crime comedy serial the Laura Stone Files.
https://open.substack.com/pub/ethanrodgers/p/the-thoughts-of-the-concrete?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=b9r5q
This epsiode has a mystery of the week plot as well as introducing the mytharc plot. Looking for advice on how to better balance those two elements, and anything else that crosses your mind.
I thought the opening was rather strong, and it was funny throughout. I appreciate a good running gag like Tumbler and his updated terms of service. And I liked how Laura kept thinking of her father, interesting character note, he felt like a proper member of the cast through all the mentions.
However, I think part of the issue is that the pool incident never becomes truly interesting, just part of the comedy, while the actual intrigue cases are handled by other people. Which makes the ending not that satisfying, because there wasn't much investment in the storyline that did get resolved.
I'm not used to crime fiction, but aren't the culprits usually introduced before confronting them? It feels a little anti-climatic for two only alluded to before characters to be the culprits who get taken down in the same scene they first appear in. Feels more like the lead in to the intrigue than the proper mystery of the week. Also for a serial chapter it felt a little too long, maybe break up each episode a little, or condense them?
Hi William
Thanks for reading. I think you're right about the central mystery being a bit dull, the idea of stolen pool water was just too funny for me to let go. Don't build an entire plot around a joke!
Hi Ethan,
I laughed out loud throughout your piece, especially near the beginning. Lines like “If Laura had done that she’d be written up for a dress code violation, dinner and a movie” and “Peer-reviewed studies had shown it could help with her myriad skin problems, and crackpot-reviewed tweets said it could increase her psychogenic resonance. Win-win, she thought” are funny, but also give us a chance to peer into the Laura’s world and/or mind.
Laura is an excellent protagonist because she’s well-rounded and we get a sense of her flaws and positive traits. However, the other characters are a bit one-dimensional and flat.
As the story progressed, I was losing interest because the scenes were answering questions quicker than creating them. There were also some extensive sets of dialogue that moved the main plot forward, but revealed little about the characters that could be used for secondary plots.
The external stakes are clear, but answered quickly. What are some of the internal stakes from all the characters? How could these internal stakes play a role in the main plot to keep it more engaging? What are the thematic stakes? What are some questions you want us to ask about the characters that you can reveal later on?
I enjoyed your work, and I’m looking forward to reading a revised edition and following Laura’s adventures.
Hi, Nolan.
Thank you for reading, this is quite helpful. I knew something was up with the tension and I think you're right, few of the mysteries get time to breathe. Will definitely work on this for future revisions and episodes.
Hello:
I'd like feedback on the second installment of my superhero serial, Gaseous Girl: the Winds of Time:
https://indianamichael.substack.com/p/gaseous-girl-and-the-winds-of-time-997
Specifically, along with a third-person POV in the story, I also tried an internal monologue scene from the point of view of the main character. I'm hopeful it works in context.
Thanks for hosting this, Fictionistas! Excited to dive in and provide some feedback!
As for my request: I’d like feedback on my newsletter which is half sci-fi, half real life science essay relating to the sci-fi. My nascent brand is ‘near-future, mission-plausible” for the science part... and I’ve deviated this week on that, and I’m not sure I should have.
For the fiction chapter:
-does the dialog flow? Are the voices differentiated enough for good characterization?
-How’s the transition around Lucifer’s narrative summary telling Eve about her past and her Multiverse selves? Too info dumpy? Awkward amid the dialog?
-Does it make sense? (Sorry, this is CH2--Ch1 did not have a science IRL essay)
For the science fiction essay: This is my 2nd series in my new Newsletter. My first set of essays were strongly rooted in real today/tomorrow science NASA is working on and related directly to what was happening in the chapter. I’ve just leaped over near-future into what’s probably many decades or a century problem: building a multiverse ship, AND I’ve based in on collaborative Notes involvement with readers...and I don’t have many readers.
-Do you advise me to continue this path for the science portion, or do you suggest I stick with my brand until it’s stronger and I have more established readers before I experiment?
-Should I continue with the collaborative aspect?
-Is it even clear what I’m asking readers to do?
https://open.substack.com/pub/scifirl/p/the-reclamation-of-eve-chapter-2?r=1w1z8s&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts! I shall be Sub-karmically in your debt even for reading this whole post <3
Coming in part way through a serial is always a little difficult, and harder in a written work since descriptions of things tend to be found earlier. I felt the summary of Lucifer's narrative broke the flow, would have preferred it as dialogue. Lucifer and Eve felt distinct dialogue wise. And I liked how you wrote Eve's perspective with how much she doesn't know.
Despite the issues with starting mid serial, I think I have a solid handle of the story. Eve is to her knowledge the only human on some sort of scavenger world, and the story is about to bring in the multiverse. With the whole thing referencing Genesis.
Byline for the chapter also feels a little busy. By ~6 chapters do you mean the whole thing will be six chapters? Some people prefer not knowing how many chapters a serial will be, and it's also unclear to me if the ~ even represents that. The various slashes before punk also make it seem a bit too jumbled.
I relate hard to attempting to do collaborative elements with few readers, I've done polls for my serial that got crickets. Gets very discouraging.
I had trouble understanding how exactly your collaborative part is planned. If you're going to use examples, I think they should highlight the collaborative part. Because I'm not sure how the process will involve multiple people, you need to show the blank parts where someone else says something.
The full outline makes it feel like too much of a solo effort. The prompting for readers feels too broad and encompassing, I think you should narrow it down, like asking for hypotheses and then individually prompting people who respond for their refined ones. I definitely appreciate trying something like this for reader engagement, you should keep at it and refine it.
Thank you so much! This was so thorough and useful—I didn’t even ask about my titles design and I appreciate you providing comments about it!
Thank you for the candor that a lot of this stuff didn’t work—it confirms some of my suspicions and that’s very grounding.
I will go back and take another pass at the collaborative bit especially!
I'm not ready to participate yet, but I'm beginning to sandbox my latest project this month. I'd love some feedback as I venture into some different forms of storytelling. How often are you hosting these workshop threads?
Current idea is to do them monthly, but we're just starting this out, so things could change. Giving feedback is also a way to participate in this thread.
Thanks!
I have a serial story on Kindle Direct Publishing's Vella program, not sure if that is "eligible" but I would definitely appreciate feedback. I've "published" 6 episodes, writing the 7th now. The first three episodes are free reads, and I would love feedback. But I understand if KDP isn't eligible for this workshop. Here is the first episode: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/episode/B0BSTY9WF9
Hi Fictionistas! I just started writing a horror serial, and I haven't gotten very deep so far. Here's Part 1:
https://wednesdayafternoon.substack.com/p/the-lost-circus-part-1
This is my first attempt at writing horror, and though I'm pleased with the outcome, I'm still trying to figure out the right blend of description/action/internal monologue to keep the reader interested and not confused. Is the pacing of the story okay? Does it seem to flow or get stuck in certain areas? How can I improve on this as the story continues? And is there another glaring problem that I need to fix but just don't see?
Thank you!
Hi, Olivia.
Thanks for posting this for everyone to read. I think you've got a really lovely prose style that really sets the mood quite effortlessly in the opening paragraphs. I was immediately intrigued and that's often half the battle. On that note you're totally fine with balancing the internal monologue and the action and description, everything flows naturally and it never feels like we're jumping from thought, to action, to description awkwardly.
If I had an issue with this story it's that a lot of the moments that are supposed to be a little scary or spooky are sometimes quite bluntly and laid on a bit thick. I think this comes from the scarier moments being rushed a little bit especially towards the end, we don't get a lot of time for the atmosphere to envelop us, it just kind of changes quite abruptly. Looking forward to seeing where this goes though!
Thank you, Ethan! I really appreciate your feedback. Pacing is usually a problem for me. I've been working on slowing down and letting the atmosphere simmer, but I haven't quite figured out how to make something scary without ending up as a jumpscare. Giving the story space always feels like I'm dragging it out and boring the reader, but if it's too fast, it feels rushed, like you said. Definitely a good thing to keep working on!
I posted the prologue and first chapter of God’s Paperwork, a fictional story where Ana Petrenko must navigate the afterlife’s bureaucracy to find her brother and change her family’s fate in the physical world.
All comments are welcome. I’m more often a nonfiction writer, but after reading some of Terry Prachett, Neil Gaiman, and Douglas Adam’s work, I became inspired to satirize my partner’s bureaucratic rollercoaster.
I’m a “plantser,” so even though I have a general idea of the major plot points, scenes might move around. I’m hoping to make this fictional story interactive for subscribers through comments, guest appearances, and references.
Please, let me know if you think it’s worth continuing. Comments are welcome on the piece itself. https://open.substack.com/pub/bornwithoutborders/p/gods-paperwork?r=1qf7m9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank you for offering this workshop!!
Tuesdays are full on writing days for me, but I look forward to reading a lot of these posts this week!
I am currently publishing a serial novel on my substack: lunchbreakstories.substack.com.
I would appreciate general feedback on the content and salability of the story.
Thank you!!
Would anyone be interested in critiquing this piece? I am interested in what readers see when they go in 'cold' to read one of my Substack stories.
https://open.substack.com/pub/plottedout/p/sex-and-shenanigans-operation-ike?r=615mx&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web